STAGE 3 - Building the 2F ETI PART 1
2F + 3FE = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40
Jan 31, 2007
Well after reading a few forum threads on grafting a 3FE head onto a 2F block we have decided to go the whole 9 yards and return the
punt for a touch down and build an injected turbo water inter cooled 2F.
I already have a worked 2F that rocks that's been rebuilt and balanced. Tomorrow I pick up a 3F-E complete for $200US that was pulled
out and replaced by a 350 in an 80 series. It was running when removed too.
My 2F, the last dyno run. So we know where we started. Red is Gas and Blue is LPG.
I'm only using the head and some of the EFI which will bolt on to a 2F this means I keep the longer stroke of the 2F while the bore is identical in the 2F and 3F motor, plus the 2F was a stronger motor and will suit the Turbo better, though there is much work to be done there too, but first the head and injection system will be built and then onto the block.
First up will be to remove the 3F-E head and have it worked, ported and polished plus whatever else it needs to suit the turbo. So for those interested watch this space for a detailed write up.
The original 2F was built and cammed for low down torque on LPG, the head was skimmed and a few other bits. So it's tuned for LPG. This engine was built for torque not hp to turn 35's. Diffs are 4.556 too. 30 spline Longfileds in the front as we snapped a stock CV every trip out.
First the engine builder wants the 3F-E head which is stock to calculate the volume and compression, from there he will if needed open it up. It seems that to get more out of the turbo it may be better to de-compress the engine, rather than increase it. All this can be done while it's being ported and polished. New forged pistons will be needed as well as con rods. Crank I'm told is not an issue cam has not yet been discussed.
Now where is my credit card!
The turbo people said they would like the engine to make around 8.0:1 so that's sorted if need be the head will be opened up to achieve the required compression. Also to run boost up to 20 psi I should have the the head or block O'ringed, I'm learning real fast, Without adding the O'rings to the head or block the turbo people here only recommend a max of 10psi. It's seems the O'rings aid the cylinder head gasket so a higher boost can be run. Like I said before I'm learning as I go but for myself I think 15psi max would be the go rather than pushing the limits too far. Other issues I have yet to address are fuel pumps and gas convertors to cope.
I'll take pics of the 3F-E head before it goes to be machined and post up a full list of the modifications and after pics.
Feb 03, 2007
Well the 3F-E has landed not bad for $300Aus complete. Anyway stripped the head down, inlet manifold and exhaust, would have been nice if
the unit was all in one piece but can't grumble at the price. The EFI had been removed and all the vacuum lines pulled plus a few other
bits. Will have fun putting it back together.
But on the whole the head looks good, no black oily cylinders either.
The head will make a trip to work for a good clean up in our industrial tool washing machine.
The head will make a trip to work for a good clean up in our industrial tool washing machine.
Just need to score a 2F head gasket to check that all, is as it should be compared to the 3F-E one. Everyone says it matches but no way I'm shelling out large to find out it has issues - But let the fun begin!
Feb 04, 2007
As far as I can see the part number for a 1980 2F is the same as the 3F-E. The manifold gasket is different on the intake but my headers
will bolt up as the exhaust ports are the same.Just a pity the ceramic coated headers are of no use as I will need new custom built ones
for the Turbo.
Some useful info here
3FE Desmog Guide
Feb 06, 2007
Well the head is SPANKIN and off to the engine builders on Monday.
The injection rail came up well too, just have to sort out what injectors we are to use to suit the Turbo.
Before
After
Feb 11, 2007
The heads all good no cracks. Cleaned a few more parts and didn't they come up well!
Feb 12, 2007
Found out today I will need a new altenator and Vacuum canister the list just slowly grows.
I'm also finding gaskets hard to find in some cases, it seems only the very early 80 series here came with the 3F-E and only for a very
short time. Not having the same pollution laws the EFI never made the 62's, as far as I can see. Did however snap up the last 2 genuine
gaskets in Austraila from Toyota for the throttle body. 11 in stock for the injection rail to manifold so 2 of those as well. The gasket
however for the cold start injector is no longer available according to Toyota even from Japan so have to make one or go with the liquid
gasket. Will need to find a good site for gaskets in the USA, I may have to shop overseas soon. Aftermarket for the 3F-E here seems to be
a big fat ZERO
Feb 13, 2007 (PIC)
Well the quotes in
Oh yes it's in Aus $
The only part missing on the quote is porting the inlet manifold to match the head. Grand total with tax $1855.70AUD
Work on the head has started, the valves are not standard size, being larger they give better flow in and out hence the part of the bill for machine for over size valves (guess the ford valves suited it best).
Feb 19, 2007
Took the thermostat housing apart to clean mmmmmm, lots of silicon sealent and once opened it looks like a fair bit of stop leak too that's
dried hard inside and around the thermostat. Also one of the 4 bolts was covered in stop leak where it looks as if it has been leaking up
the thread until it finally sealed. You just know this old 3F-E has had cooling issues in the past from the state of play.
What I was not expecting was this to have been an issue from new I guess, unless the thermostat housing has been replaced in the past, though unlikely. After a good clean and re-assembling without a gasket I noticed one of the bolts would not tighten down (finger tight) anywhere near as much as the others. (2--3mm) On close inspection I tested the depth of the two blind holes both the same. I messed around a little longer still a 2-3mm difference. On even closer inspection I could actually see that the thread in one hole was shorter than the other, even though the holes were of the same depth. So even from new this thermostat housing would have always been a weak spot if not a complete pain in the a***, as it would have never tightened up to seal well.
Ran a 8mmx1.25 tap down it and now it's all good. Strange how the smallest of things can give so much trouble, you just wonder how many hours were spent with sealent and gaskets trying to get it right. All good now though.
Feb 21, 2007
All three electrical connections were damaged when removed (Not By Me) A,C & D.
A-I think is the Temp switch
C-I think is the cold start injector timer switch
D-I think is the Temp sensor
B- is a Vacuum switch but to what?
E-I have no Idea what this hole is for, it's a threaded hole that goes through in to the thermostat like the others but had nothing in it that I recall though it looks more like it would suit a compression fitting than a sensor of sorts.
Feb 27, 2007
The old EGR gasket was used to make the new blanking plate from stainless as this part of the EFI system will not be used.
Fitted
Feb 28, 2007
Valves arrived today from
Pistons were ordered with coated skirts and crowns.
The cradle/plate is being custom made to strengthen the crank to take the stresses of the water cooled turbo.
March 03, 2007
Head done picking it up Wednesday.
March 13, 2007
The results are in and looking good, just waiting for the graphs from the engine builders.
The cylinder head cc before was 79cc after 80cc with the Ferrea valves but this has remained about the same due to the seating of the
valves being deeper I'm told.
Final bill pretty close to the estimate.
Also the Flow Test HP, CFM I can't recall, waiting on the graphs and figures.
Before 250HP AFTER 350HP
Now as I understand it this is not the actual engine HP but just the capacity of the max air flow. I think it's like making sure you have enough gas from your fuel pump. Eg: not enough fuel being delivered engine will run lean and you need a bigger fuel pump, not enough air and it will run rich and you need to increase your air flow.
AS you can see substantial gains can be made from the above work. I'm told this increase will suit the Turbo well.
March 16, 2007
Picked the head up today.
Here's a photo of the intake manifold which has been ported to match the head, the hole at the top of the port is where the injector sits.
Well that's stage one just about complete just waiting on a few gaskets from Toyota Japan. The flow graphs I chased up today and should be with us shortly.
March 18, 2007
Gasket Part No for the 3F-E injection system and Thermostat housing genuine.
Manifold 17172-61060 Ex Japan only ordered 2
Air Surge 17176-61020 Only 11 left in Australia bought 2
Throttle body 22271-61020 Only 2 left in Australia bought both now Ex Japan only
Thermostat/head 16343-61020 Had no trouble getting this but think it will be the same on a 3F
Theromstat housing 16341-61030 Had No trouble getting this but think it will be the same as a 3F
Cold Start injector 23293-61010 Ex Japan only ordered 2
Idle speed control valve 22278-61010 Ex Japan only ordered 2
Here in OZ the 3F-E only came in the very early 80 series 90-92 I think, as far as I can see the 62 series carried the 3F as we did not
have the same emission restrictions. This however means that Toyota carry very few parts on the shelf for the 3F-E here, due to the short
life span. Hence buying 2 of each gasket.
March 23, 2007
We will be running a new ECU as yet undecided on which and a custom loom too. No air flow meter just a M.A.P sensor from what I understand
and a knock sensor as well as a few more, like I have said, this is all very new to me so learning as I go with Turbo, EFI, ECU but it's fun.
Currently looking at Motec and Wolf.
March 26, 2007
As far as I can see I have two MoTec units to pick from the older M48 and the new generation M600.
Motec m48
Motec m400 m600
They also seem to have the best parts and accessories to go with them.
Motec Catalog
The Wolf system is the V500, a good bit cheaper too and includes a loom where the Motoec doesn't.
Wolf
Here is another, this one came recommended.
AUTRONIC
Still looking into others though.
March 28, 2007
Most of the sensors will be Bosch.
Check the MotorSport Products at MotorSport
The Throttle body will come from the 3F-E but without the Air Flow Meter, that will not be used just a MAP sensor, Knock Sensor and a few
others I have yet to fathom.
Looks like the Autronic is the way I will be going as it has come highly recommended from here On Track 4x4
There is a throttle position sensor on the 3F-E injection manifolds throttle body, I will be using that one.
From what I understand so far the knock sensor is most important to stop detonation happening. M.A.P negates the need for an air flow meter though you can have both to control emissions even better I believe, but don't quote me there. But from what I understand the air flow meter only hinders air flow into the engine. Below you can see why, later Bosch AFM are better I believe but still unneccessary.
The word from the horses mouth at Autronic is not an issue TPS will be fine on the 3F-E even for my dinosaur and I guess most other ECU's are the same. You do however need a custom made distibutor to take a timing signal from, though this is nothing too difficult.
So where are we up to.
Heads ready.
Custom con rods are on the drawing board.
All but the cold start injector gasket and the Idle speed control gasket are in, those 2 were ex Japan and are due in around the 4th of April.
Injectors are ordered and up to 3 weeks, once these and the EFI gaskets are in I'll re-assemble the EFI unit and re cal the TPS to FSM specs.
New thermostat and the rubber gasket to pick up this week.
Pretty much at the point now where everything will slow down a little as the parts for the block come in, con rods, JE pistons, the cradle for the crank, custom head gasket and new head bolts.
That will take a couple of months, then the block will come out and all the parts will be assembled along with the work required to it.
From there the 2F-E will go back in and be trailered to have the ECU fitted and set up.
The good news here is my ceramic coated extractors will bolt straight back up for now.
I will have the truck dyno'd at this point and see what we have.
Once the ECU is settled and everything is running smooth and the bank account is once again restored the Turbo will be added and the ECU re programmed.
April 13, 2007
Well the gaskets finally came from Japan only took 8 weeks but I have to admit I was a little mad when I was told the manifold gasket which
had arrived 4 weeks ago had been sold yesterday. I had not picked it up as I thought I would wait on all the Gaskets arriving. Paid in
advance too. Few choice words with the General manager and one is being expressed from Japan and will be here today by 2pm. Just over 20
hours. Genuine gaskets too.
Also picked up for a $100AUD a 2F block for the engine builder to work out the measurements for the strengthening of the crank, rather than
having to pull mine out and have it off the road longer.
Here are the graphs for the port and polish and the new valves before and after. The Cam we will be using gives around .5ins lift.
Intake
Exhaust
END OF PART 1
If you have any questions about the build up or would like to make a comment then you can do so via the FJ40 2F ETI LOCKED AND LOADED BLOG located HERE .